Tuesday, December 06, 2005

Jews Who Call Christians Their Enemies

Jews Who Call Christians Their Enemies

For starters, if you don’t know where this blog stands with regard to the Nation of Israel, read some older posts.  It is difficult to find a more vociferously pro-Israel blog than this one.  However, read on ….

In recent days, we have read how the Anti-Defamation League has decided to target Evangelical Christians (and their political agenda) as their top foes in the political arena.

Now we read in the Washington Times that a significant group of US Jewish leaders have met to consider how to counter the challenge of Evangelical Christians who are, among other things, (scary music, please!) daring to express their views in the political arena.

It is somewhat amusing to see these Jewish leaders going NOT after the growing Muslim threat in the US from such organizations as CAIR; not after the ACLU, which hates all religion to some extent; not after degrading Hollywood producers who flood their homes with trash; and not after radical homosexuals who would gladly bugger the sons of these Jewish leaders.  

Of course not! They are obsessed with going after the one group in the US that – apart from US Jewish groups themselves – is MOST vocal in speaking out for the cause of the Nation of Israel and its God-given right to Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel).

Whether this anti-Evangelical focus is partly the result of sheer ignorance, cowardice,  or exclusively from bigotry is not easily determined.

However, I think it is clear that Michael Savage (himself a Jew) has a point when he brands such Jews as Charles Schumer and Barbara Boxer as “Christian-haters.”  I would extend this moniker the likes of Abe Foxman, et al, as well.

Hatred – like all sin – knows no ethnic or religious boundaries.  Sadly, some of the Jews who shriek the most loudly about “Never Again” every year during Holocaust Remembrance are blinded to their very own special brand of hatred – Evangelicalphobia.

As Vox Day has pointed out: This is a REALLY STUPID MOVE by these Jewish leaders, for they are picking on the ONE GROUP in this world that has proven to be a strong supporter of both Jews and the Nation of Israel.


Blogger Elizabeth said...

gunjam, the reason these evangelical Christian groups "support" Israel has nothing to do with supporting Jewish people. It's just part of their set-up for Armageddon, in which they are looking forward to seeing all the Jews either convert or burn in hell.

Wed Dec 07, 07:58:00 PM PST  
Blogger GunJam said...

hi, elizabeth! You crack me up! Yes, you are SOOOO right: T o us Evangelicals, Jews are nothing more than notches to be carved into our Jesus-winnin' gun-barrels ... just so many pawns in the Armageddon computer game! LOL. (By the way: according to our ruleboook, EVERYONE must either convert or burn in hell -- Jew OR Gentile.) By the way, again, the LORD is PERFECTLY capable of choreographing Armageddon without help from the likes of gunjam -- or even of Jerry Falwell, for that matter! However, you are a bit obtuse if you cannot discern at least a scintilla of difference between the attitude of the Palestinians who dance with joy when Israelis are blown to bits in a pizza parlor and evangelicals, most of whom support Israel's efforts to target Pali terror leaders. (By the way, YET AGAIN, the Israelis scored a big bullseye this week!)

Thu Dec 08, 05:39:00 AM PST  
Blogger Elizabeth said...

People who support Israel's policy of so-called "targeted killings"--which often kill innocent civilians along with the intended targets--may be some type of "evangelicals", but they are not Christians. If you don't believe me--re-read the New Testament.

Thu Dec 08, 01:44:00 PM PST  
Blogger GunJam said...

You are right! I DO need to re-read the New Testament -- and YOU need to re-read the Old (where the LORD promises the Holy Land to the Jews in perpetuity). However, NEITHER the Old nor the New Testaments direct the "thou shalt not kill" commandment towards Governments, but to individuals. In fact, our LORD spoke of kings going to war. It is a given that Governments will their enemies. I'd say that Israel has an enemy or two, wouldn't you, elizabeth? Well, then: Expect some killing to occur -- and SOME (not all) evangelicals to cheer. I will be among those cheering every time a jihadist is hit. Why do you complain about a few innocent bystanders being killed in an Israeli targeted killing of a known thug? I have never heard you bemoaning the innocent Israeli women and children who have (in far greater numbers) had their flesh and guts splattered onto the streets and buildings of Israel by the bastard jihadists. I hope you can see that I am not the least bit biased here! ;-)

Fri Dec 09, 06:09:00 PM PST  
Blogger Elizabeth said...

Gunjam, your statistics are inaccurate. More than twice as many Palestinians have been killed by Israelis during the last several years than Israelis killed by Palestinians (I'll send you some source material if you want).

I don't follow the Old Testament. I don't see God as a real estate agent. Actually the New Testament, which I partially follow, contradicts the Old Testament. You said you're an evangelical--I am puzzled. From your writing I've been sure that you were Jewish. (I come from a half-Jewish, half-Christian background, in case you're wondering). I don't care what religion you are, but I am quite disturbed, however, by the fact that you seem to be proud of being racist.

Sat Dec 10, 02:30:00 PM PST  
Blogger GunJam said...

Hi, elizabeth! As usual, thank you for your thought-provoking comments. Okay, I am willing to look at your stats that may prove me wrong on the relative numbers killed in recent rumbles in the Holy Land. However, that will not affect my position in the least -- although it would make my assertion in my post wrong, of course.

Regarding theology: I believe the entire book, with the caveat that the New Testament takes priority over the old, but does not invalidate the Old. I do not have much regard for those who (like you seem to indicate that you do) "cherry-pick" only those portions of Scripture that "resonate" with them. It is not my Book: I don't have that option (although I will readily admit to many gross failings in my obedience to what I profess)!

Regarding my being a racist, . . . Whaaaaa? I am pro-Israeli in a war they are having. If I am pro-American in the Iraq War, does that make me -- according to your logic -- a racist, too?

By the way, I do NOT appreciate the fact that the Palis danced in the street after 9-11, either. Why do you cut them all the slack for their bloodthirsty and murderous ways and call Christians like me racists for not wanting to see the Palis have their way by pushing the Israelis into the sea?

Anyway, this whole thing has a lighter side: You, who enjoy Jewish heritage, are calling me, a Gentile, a racist, because I root for the Jews in their fight against the Arabs. Did I get that right?

Sun Dec 11, 11:38:00 PM PST  
Blogger Elizabeth said...

A few Palestinians did celebrate 9-11, and yes, that was grossly insensitive. But they watch as American-made weapons destroy their homes and kill their children. You can understand their anger I think. Most Palestinians support a two-state solution, which does not involve "pushing Jews into the sea."

As for the Bible--how do you reconcile the exhortations in the Old Testament to slaughter other tribes, with Jesus' instructions to "love your enemies, do good to them that hate you." ?

Making generalizations about large groups of people is stereotyping. When you then use these stereotypes to promote discriminatory actions against those groups, that's racism.

Mon Dec 12, 11:53:00 AM PST  
Blogger Elizabeth said...

P.S. I'm skimming the New Testament right now, and I don't see where you get this distinction between how to treat people as individuals and how governments treat people. Jesus seems to emphasize individual responsibility and individual acts and the worth of each individual life...I don't see where he says governments go to war and kill people and that's ok.

Mon Dec 12, 11:58:00 AM PST  
Blogger GunJam said...

hi, elizabeth: i think we are getting to the nub of things: You are obviously an israel-hater/palestinian-apologist.
First, don't tell me "a few" Palestinians celebrated 9-11. If that is the case, how come those "few" just all happened to be near cameras to captured for all of us to see? No, elizabeth, I suspect that virtually ALL palestinians celebrated that day. And, elizabeth, please stop whitewashing and understating the evils committed by your Muslim friends while simultaneously shining a microscope on the alleged misdeeds of the Israelis and the Americans. Please do not call their dancing over the deaths of Americans at the hands of Jew-hating, Christian-hating, Israel-hating, America-hating, JIHADIST, ARAB, MUSLIM (REPEAT: MUSLIM) cut-throats "inseeeeeeeeeeeensitive." It wasn't insensitive: It was sheer, diabolical EVIL -- evil of a kind scarcely found among christians and jews. Do you think Americans danced in the street when the news of the atom bomb being dropped on Japan was announced? Do you think Jews danced in the street when they learned that the head of Hamas had been killed by a missile? Please, elizabeth, your mask is slipping now. Your agenda of apologizing for and whitewashing the followers of islam who hate us is showing now -- and you are not going to be allowed to get away with it unchallenged in this forum. Why do you only sympathize with the anger of Palestinians who have lost homes/loved ones to "American weapons"? Why do you not share a similar sympathy with your Jewish brethren who have similarly been bereft of loved ones by an endless list of terrorist organizations from Hizbullah in Lebanon to the Hamas and the PLO on their own soil. (Please: you are lying through your teeth when you say that most Palestinians want a two-state resolution and you know it. Arafat's weird headgear was deliberately shaped to look like ALL of Israel -- as in, that is their goal.) On the other hand, if you TRULY believe what you are saying, then you are totally deceived. Best you marry a Muslim man and become his chattel slave, so hopelessly deceived are you by their lies. i despair of having an intelligent conversation with you.

Mon Dec 12, 07:48:00 PM PST  
Blogger GunJam said...

Regarding the bible: i am thrilled that you are actually reading it. However, it takes awhile to get the "lay of the land." You will find -- perhaps to your chagrin -- that the LORD has set a special love on the People of Israel. (I guess, in your unique moral calculus, that makes God a "racist!") However, even as the LORD has set a special love on Israel, He has also exacted terrible punishments on her as a result of their habitual disobedience. In fact, the Palestinians of today are no doubt evidence of Divine wrath. Nonetheless, the "real estate" (your term) of the Holy Land (and I mean ALL of it, and then some) has been UNCONDITIONALLY deeded to the seed of Abraham (via Isaac -- not Ishmael) in perpetuity -- UN Resolution 242, et al, to the contrary notwithstanding. Start with Genesis 12 on that and numerous other confirming and amplifying passages. In the end Eretz Yisrael will be inhabited by Ha-'Am Yisrael in conditions of Shalom under the care of HaShem. All opponents will be crushed (but not until the end).

Regarding how to tell if a passage is directed to an individual or a church, as opposed to a king or a nation, one must carefully ascertain the CONTEXT of the passage. You are a bright woman: Surely you can tell that the bulk of the New Testament is addressed to individuals or groups of believers. While the Gospels focus exclusively on the Jews, the other books of the NT gradually become broader in scope, taking in indivduals of groups of Gentile believers. There is no conflict between the Old and New Testaments, although certain aspects of the Old are superceded by the New. Nonetheless, many a Christian preacher will take his text from the OT this coming Sunday. We all have our preferences: You simply may prefer the New to the Old, and that is fine with me. I challenge you to find any passage forbidding kings (or nations) from taking their nations to war in general, although there were individual kings who were warned against specific campaigns. On the other hand, other kings/leaders in the OT were promised victory in battle.

Tue Dec 13, 04:43:00 AM PST  
Blogger Elizabeth said...

where to start...

gunjam, I think you are naive about the media. I used to be a journalist and I can tell you photographers and camerapeople always take the most provocative, inflammatory shot they can. And that's what gets shown. And, what I saw on the news when Arafat died was, in fact, Orthodox Jews in Israel dancing in the streets. (the men anyway). I wouldn't be surprised if some Americans celebrated Hiroshima.

What makes you think I have no sympathy for Jewish victims?

As for the two-state solution--of course it is a compromise for the Palestinians. Of course they would prefer to have their country back. But they are willing to settle for a two-state solution. You can't always get what you want.

I'm not sure I followed your theological argument. Probably we just disagree on what God is about and the relative importance of Jesus' words.

By the way, I just heard a voice from God telling me the island of Manhattan belongs to me and my kindred in perpetuity. Lucky me! I can't wait to kick out all those heathens so my kindred can be fruitful and multiply in their luxury apartments!

Tue Dec 13, 09:29:00 AM PST  
Blogger Elizabeth said...

It seems you are getting upset because I have been challenging your preconceived ideas, which appear to have been based on information you obtained from talk radio. I suppose it can feel threatening to find out that much of what you have believed for a long time may not be the whole story. Rather than getting upset, I think you should read some different works of history and expand your knowledge base.

Tue Dec 13, 09:39:00 AM PST  

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